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Digger talks to Steve Warner who runs autograph business autographcollection.co.uk about the fascinating world of autograph collecting. Steve has a lot of advice for novice collectors to get the most from their hobby. For investors in these uncertain financial times, Steve also suggests that autographs and signed collectables are more sound an investment than stocks and shares. 

 

 

Abba

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Digger: Hello Steve. Hope you're well?
 
Steve: Hello David. I’m fine and I’m glad you could tell the time today!
 
Digger: (Laughs) Rub it in because I thought 14:00 was 4 o’ clock yesterday and we missed each other! I’m 52 now and I get at least one senior moment a day.
 
Steve: (Laughs) A bit premature to be senile?
 
Digger: Possibly, but I can remember very small pieces of trivia from the 60s and 70s but not what I had for breakfast, or, indeed, if I have even had breakfast. That’s a joke by the way! But the short term memory does tend to go a bit. Have you had that 'blokey' thing where you can’t see things in front of you in a cupboard or fridge and you have to get help?
 
Steve: No.
 
Digger: You’ve got that to look forward to as well. (Both laugh) I was in the Co-op a while ago and there was a man in front of me at the baker’s counter and I knew he was thinking the same as me. “Where are the bags for the rolls?” And he spent two minutes standing there, eyeing the shelves up and down and so did I. He then asked an assistant who showed him they were right in front of him (and me.)
 
Steve: One of the things is, because I work from home and my wife goes out to work, I end up doing all the housework and the weekly shop and everything.
 
Digger: Either it’s an age thing or there’s something wrong with me. (Both laugh) I’ll do the shopping with my partner and yesterday she said “That packet of fruit you bought has gone over.” It had fermented. And I didn’t remember buying it and I couldn’t see it in the fridge until she pointed it out. (Both laugh) Silly old fool.
 
Steve: Your mind is obviously crammed with other stuff.
 
Digger: That’s it. I don’t forget important stuff normally. (Both laugh)
 
Steve: To be honest, I gave up on you yesterday at 2:45 as I had to go out.
 
Digger: I thought that was the case. Sorry. It’s not good, but we all mistakes and I’m not going to beat myself up about it. But thanks for reminding me. (Both laugh)
 
Steve: You’re probably going to ask me lots of nasty questions now we started off on the wrong foot?
 
Digger: Not at all! How did you get into the autographs business?
 
Steve: I worked in the book trade for about fifteen years in bookselling and book wholesaling. From the shop floor up to director level in quite big companies. It got to the stage where I’d had enough of that.
 
Digger: What was it you hated?
 
Steve: A new managing director who came in and was basically getting rid of all of the people the previous MD had employed. He was just the nastiest little man you could ever come across. He didn’t give a damn about anybody or anything. And in the end, after putting up with it for a few months, I went in on the first day back after the Christmas break and told him where to shove it.
 
Digger: Excellent. Did you have any backup?
 
Steve: Nothing at all!
 
Digger: (Both laugh) Wow, that was very brave!
 
Steve: Also, I didn’t want to work in London and that was where most of the big book publishers were. I lived in the country and wanted to stay here and work here. I’d got used to the quieter pace. I’d collected autographs in terms of signed first editions through working in the book trade and had often been to celebrity functions but didn’t ever ask people for autographs at all. I played snooker with Ronnie O’Sullivan one night and had dinner with John Major and Terry Pratchett. And yet I never asked for autographs. I did collect vintage Hollywood autographs. So it was a case of what would I like to do? Eventually I thought about setting up my own business and because I had a good retail background – buying, marketing, then that's the kind of thing I wanted to get into. So when I started up it was a case of investing in some stock. And, this was five years ago. I was pretty much focused on antique collector's fairs and going round the country almost every week to different locations and taking the stock with me. Anybody who’s done that will tell you it’s incredibly hard work and the rewards are pretty uncertain. It was hard work gradually building up the interest and the contacts. Because I’d had the retail skills I could display the items well and was good at dealing with people. So, gradually, I built up a customer base.
 
Digger: How do you work out your pricing?
 
Steve: As with any collectable, pricing is a case of looking at how much you spent and then how much you want to make on top. And you can be as generous or greedy as you like but you’re not going to sell it if you get too greedy in the first place. I never price anything until it’s framed or mounted and is the finished article. If I go and buy a signature on a signed album page, I don’t have a specific price in mind apart from a general idea.

 

World Cup Squad 1966

 

 
Digger: The World Cup item you have – is that everybody from the 1966 team?
 
Steve: That is the eleven players who played in the final. Because of the nature of the framing it’s a high-quality piece. Also because this is a World Cup year there’s going to be increased interest.
 
Digger: How much do you think that’s going to go for?
 
Steve: I’ve got it at £825. I may not get as much as that because, on the Internet, just as at a fair, people do barter and they’ve got used to doing that. They don’t just see a price and pay it, they ring up or email me and ask me what price I can do it for. So you don’t necessarily get what you see on the screen. I often discount for regular customers as well as a sort of loyalty scheme.
 
Digger: Do you do 'layaway'?
 
Steve: I do that for certain customers and I’m happy to put an item to one side and the customer gets the item when it’s paid for.

 

The Marx Bros

 

 
 
Digger: I’ve got a rare signed photograph 'pairing' here. Ian Hislop and Robert Maxwell in my album from the 80s, when Maxwell was taking Private Eye to court on a regular basis. It appealed to my warped sense of humour to write off to both of them and then to have their photos in the book on opposite sides of the album so that they were face to face when it’s closed! This was before Ian was a household name from the news quiz and the photo he sent was an eccentric close-up which I told him scared my baby. I got a letter from Maxwell’s office which I had to return to them signed saying that I wouldn’t use the photo for publication.
 
Steve: It sounds like a nice piece but probably not worth a lot.
 
Digger: I don’t think Maxwell got many requests for autographs. He fell off his yacht about a year later.
 
Steve: Often artists do have disclaimers like that with their signed photos.
 
Digger: One TV star I interviewed, an elderly gentleman, was having a hard time because an autograph dealer was turning up with a suitcase every so often on his doorstep almost demanding that he sign a lot of items. This star was getting on a bit and it was quite upsetting for him really.
 
Steve: I think that’s got worse these days. I never stand outside a stage door. I’ve never waited outside a sports arena. I think it’s got worse because of eBay and there are some bad-mannered and unscrupulous people out there. I don’t operate like that. I acquire all my stock from known dealers and specialist auction houses. At a lot of these pro-celebrity golf tournaments they end up being besieged and can’t even play a shot. To the point where someone who is quite mild-mannered or generous loses it. And I think in certain areas it has become quite a problem but my business isn’t like that.

Digger: You were talking about how you set up the business...

Steve: So, when I was doing the fairs I gradually built up and then the recession came along at the end of 2008 and the fairs market fell apart. And they’re expensive events to do.
 
Digger: And tiring and time-consuming.
 
Steve: When you get to the stage where you’re basically giving away a large amount of stock and you come back with no profit and all it’s done is pay for an agricultural shed and a cheap hotel for the weekend, it’s not a great reward.
 
Digger: But online business has obviously held up?
 
Steve: What I did was at the beginning of 2009 I decided to not do the fairs for a period of time and the online has just grown so significantly in that period that since then I’ve only done two fairs. And they were two where there were guaranteed good sales. So my initial plan was to put the fairs on the back burner for a few months while people were dealing with the recession. This became a decision that it was actually far better to focus on the website, also as a lifestyle choice. My overheads are less and when money comes in I can reinvest it in stock. So my stock range has increased considerably and that generates more sales. It’s the nature of autographs – there’s an endless sea of them out there. Because people want such a variety, if you’ve got a broad stockholding and if your money isn’t blown away on petrol and hotels, and if you buy the right things, your sales go up.
 
Digger: You’re doing alright in a recession so, as the say, if you can start up and do okay in a recession then you’re bound to succeed and be bullet-proof when the upturn occurs, if it isn’t already.
 
Steve: There were certain things last year like the drop in fairs, then I had a big website redesign and that had quite a significant impact on sales as well. And then Michael Jackson died and this just brought a whole new raft of people looking at the website.

 

Michael Jackson

 

 
 
Digger: Another conspiracy theory in my mind now! (Both laugh) All the autograph dealers got together…
 
Steve: What we’ve go to do is work out who it’s going to be this year!
 
Digger: What advice would you give to somebody starting to collect autographs?
 
Steve: A couple of things. As with any collectables, buy what you like and buy what you’re interested in. Autographs are great in that they give you that link to somebody. Everybody’s got their hero be it in film, an author, a sportsman or whatever. Somebody who’s done something in the course of history that they admire. Whatever interest or taste they have, autographs can provide that close link and it is interesting and a lot of people  say “I don’t collect autographs but I’ve got some.” And there’s very few people who say they don’t have one at all. Most people have got an autograph, whether it be one they obtained in person, that they bought or were given or inherited. So if people start to get more of an interest and want to collect them I think the biggest thing is don’t rush out and start buying. Educate yourself and get to know the market. Get to know the pitfalls and get to understand that it’s estimated that 95% autographs on eBay are forgeries. Be aware that there are rogues out there who have been ripping people off for a long time.
 
Digger: Have eBay attempted to do anything about it?
 
Steve: They try from time to time. They have worked recently with a premiership footballer to try to expose and identify some dealers who were dealing in fake signed football shirts. They had a phase of clearing them off.
 
Digger: But then they turn up the next day as a different user.
 
Steve: They had a systematic campaign but eventually eBay get bored and things go back as they were. It’s one of the reasons I don’t sell, and haven’t for over four years, on eBay. I don’t want to be associated with that market. A lot of dealers will sell on their websites and eBay. It’s not for me. There are some reputable dealers on there but plenty of forgeries. I might be able to identify forgeries and most dealers would, but your average novice customer would not.
 
Digger: Should they look for the UACC mark?
 
Steve: In terms of educating yourself, that’s one of the things. It’s getting to know the market and who the good sellers are. The Universal Autograph Collector’s Club is an American organisation and anybody can be a member of that and it doesn’t signify that they’re a good trustworthy dealer. They do run a registered dealer programme where you have to have proven that you are known by others, you’ve got to show your experience and your knowledge and to prove your sources. In the UK there’s a younger organisation which has been around for a couple of years, but which is having more of an impact called AFTAL. The Autograph Fair Trade Association -  this is a group of professional dealers and you can only become an approved dealer if they can verify your credentials. In fact, they come to inspect people’s stock from time to time. They also work closely with trading standards. So if you’re looking for dealers you can trust, and that’s the important thing, getting a relationship with established dealers, then a starting point is to go to a UACC or AFTAL- registered/approved dealer. Both of their websites have lists of such approved dealers. Then get to talk to those dealers, whether it’s asking their advice, asking about a particular item they have for sale. And one of the things I’m always happy to provide is advice or information for customers. What I don’t do is valuations, because they are time-consuming and I would get inundated with such requests. There are companies that do valuations and they charge a fee. Most people, when given the value, will then sit on the item or not even believe the valuation they have been given and want more for it. Very often the enquiry is because they have something in their drawer or they just bought it and they want to check the value. 

Digger: Do you buy from dealers and the public?

Steve: I do not buy from private individuals but only from approved and known dealers –  then you are offered items from a source you know rather than from a source you have no idea of and cannot be sure of the origin and authenticity of the item. There are always far more items that I’d like to buy than I can afford, so I prefer to obtain my stock from reliable sources. The idea of getting an item from a complete stranger for an inflated price is not appealing! Also to understand about price, I would suggest if you see a John Wayne for £30 or a Marilyn Monroe for £50 then the old saying “If it looks too good to be true then it probably is” remains true. And, likewise, be careful of quite big companies who excessively price things. A lot of people buy their first autograph when they go to Florida or Las Vegas and they get caught in these tourist shops and come back with something at unbelievable prices which they could have bought over here for a fraction. So it’s all about educating yourself. Because I want people to do that and other dealers want people to do that. If somebody who is interested in starting up a collection gets their fingers burned then they’ll probably turn away and buy something else altogether.
 
Digger: I suppose there are only so many collectors?
 
Steve: There are, but an awful lot of my sales are actually one-off purchases which are Christmas, anniversary, birthday, retirement presents. Everyone has got someone they admire.
 
Digger: I once thought that I’d never buy any autographs. I used to write to a lot of up-and-coming stars in the 80s and 90s – comedians like Rowan Atkinson, Victoria Wood, Paul Merton, Rik Mayall, Harry Enfield, Stephen Fry. We even used to swap a few postcards or letters. I was a big collector of Janet Leigh memorabilia and she signed a lot of items and photos for me. But then I also started to buy signed Janet Leigh items that I didn’t have. I must have the biggest Janet Leigh collection in the world. But because she was so generous and prolific with her signing, they probably aren’t worth much. And I suppose because the comedy people and others are relatively easy to find the same applies.
 

 

Janet Leigh

 

Steve: It comes back to either collecting what you like or deciding to go for investments. Autographs are good investments and increasingly I’ve got a number of customers who are tired of traditional investments and putting their money in the bank.
 
Digger: That’s good news. I head heard about this, even just the other day from a client who sells car mascots, but it’s good to hear it’s true in your arena too. He said you might as well paper your walls with £5 notes or use them more productively in solid investments of memorabilia.
 
Steve: Increasingly people are doing that. As long as they are buying the right thing. If you’re looking for an investment, don’t go for current premiership footballers or current film and pop stars. Look at those people that have got an enduring popularity. People who collected autographs in the sixties – there will be a lot of names most people today haven’t heard of but there will be a few that everyone, even the youngsters today, will be aware of. It’s those sorts of people that you should collect from any period and any genre.

 

Michael Caine 

 

In the States two weeks ago they sold a Jimi Hendrix Experience item, signed by all three. It was just an album page and it went for $5,000. It was the auction price but an incredible amount of money for a piece of paper that was signed in 2 seconds not that long ago. When album pages with all The Beatles are selling for £3,000 - £5,000 and signed photos at £8,000 - £10,000 and Marilyn Monroe photos now selling at £10,000 - £15,000. People with an enduring popularity are the best investments. Yes, you can buy your favourite football or pop star and so on, and I sell plenty of those. But a lot of people will look back to an earlier period in their lives, maybe teens or early twenties, and the people they admired then, now some thirty or forty years on, who they still admire. They’re the people they collect and they’re the best bet from a value and investment point of view. I do particularly well with heavyweight boxers from the 20s, 30s and 40s, when I can get them. I’ve got a number of collectors who, if I put them on the website, they don’t last very long. Whereas contemporary boxers – there are some people who are collectable. I buy autographs every day but I never buy something because I like it I always buy because I think I can sell it on.
 
Digger: What about Henry Cooper?
 
Steve: Another one who signs lots every day. Not big value, but nice to have if you like him.
 
Digger: What’s the best aspects of running Autograph Collection?
 
Steve: All the benefits of being able to run your own business. Independence, unpredictability. I like the idea that I don’t know in the morning what the day will bring. 
 
Digger: Running your own business is not like being a salaried person.
 
Steve: I do think when you’re running your own business and it’s still in the relatively early stages and you’re building sales, you are aware that it can drop off for any reason. There’s a general election coming up and it could be that, during the course of the election, people will be tighter with their spending. I’ve seen this happen with the book trade and then after the election they’re more free with their spending. I’ve only got a small range of politicians for sale and some not even on the website because I haven’t worked out what to do with them. Margaret Thatcher is a regular-seller. I don’t like the woman and there’s nothing about her that I admire, but I don’t mind dealing with her signature.
 
Digger: The Brigitte Bardot signature is a very complicated one.
 

 

Brigitte Bardot

 

Steve: Yes, she’s been doing that for so long. You only have to donate to one of her charities and she’s happy to sign. The problem I have with modern stars is that often it’s just an unintelligible squiggle and each time they sign it can be different. There’s no uniformity to it.
 
Digger: It’s good if you get a bit more, like Tippi Hedren always draws some birds with her signature.
 
Steve: Yes, there are some nice features. It’s one of the reasons why, when I was collecting myself, I went for vintage Hollywood. Because if it’s in fountain pen or pencil then they’re clear and readable and with the advent of felt tip people seem to have become less so. Another two nice aspects of the business - when purchasing the items I might only own them for a short time but they pass through my ownership. It’s nice to own them for a while and it’s also nice to look at what I might replace them with. When you get certain items coming through it’s a pleasure having them, even briefly. The other thing that may be a surprise - a nice thing about running the Internet business is how pleasant so many of my customers are. The ‘feedback’, a word I don’t like because it’s a eBay thing and exploited in so many ways, but the comments I get back – nice emails which are spontaneous. I don’t put testimonials on the website because anybody could put anything up there and I don’t see much value to that. But getting emails and phone calls back from people thanking me. And you don’t expect that on the Internet as you expect people to be very cold and there's no human touch, What has surprised me is how many pleasant people I deal with.
 
Digger: What does the Internet mean to your business?
 
Steve: Everything. In terms of shows, I may only do one or two a year and the Internet is everything because it’s open 24 hours a day, every day a year. 
 
Digger: Customers from all over the world?

Steve: Yes, and growing in that respect. I regularly get clients from Australia and America. And because they all pay electronically and you can get Dollar or Euro prices on the website when you pay, it comes through to me in pounds and it’s all transparent. Also the Internet is trackable – I can see where people come from, what types of items they are looking for from Google and then how they’re looking at my website. How long they stay, what they look at. And on that basis you learn. I monitor that religiously and learn from that. My stocking policy is the same as when I was in the book trade – the core range is those items that most people want most of the time. In any category there are always those perennial favourites and that is exactly what I do with this business. Know what people like and what they are looking for and try to satisfy that on the site – people like Muhammad Ali, George Best, Bette Davis, James Stewart. Plus, of course, some contemporary names like Johnny Depp or Wayne Rooney. But there are always people who are more popular than others over time. I certainly never buy stock because of my personal likes and dislikes.

 

Tommy Cooper

 

 
Digger: What are your plans for Autograph Collection?
 
Steve: My plans are to be Internet-based and do one or two specialist fairs. I’ve got no absolutely no plans to open a retail outlet. Madness these days! If you open up a shop, you’re trapped and tied to it. That’s true of the Internet too to an extent, like when you spoke to me the other day and I had just come back from a 200 mile visit to Devon for a weekend break and then had to pack up all the Internet orders because I am committed to getting them out as quickly as possible. The website maintenance does take time and effort because it’s important to keep it up-to-date and fresh. But it's certainly worth it.
 
Digger: Steve, that’s been great. Thanks for letting us know so much about the autograph world and your business.
 
Steve: Thanks David It was good.
 

Autograph Collection have set up a discount code for users of retrosellers.com.  Simply enter the code RETRO when prompted during the checkout process to receive 10% discount on any purchase.  This offer expires on 31/12/2010. 

 

 

Ernest Shackleton

  

Frankie Howerd

Laurel and Hardy

 

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